2023-04-20 21:33 UTC
Replies (40)
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@feditips@mstdn.social 2023-04-20 21:33
There is technically still an option on the official app to "pick my own server", but it's much harder to read or notice, and new users will probably click the mastodon.social button without even understanding the other button. Mastodon.social just passed 1 million registered users about a week ago, out of a total network of approx 7 to 11 million users (dependiing on how you count them). Most of these users probably signed up via the official app. (2/6)
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@m0xee@social.librem.one 2023-04-21 11:53
@Homebrewandhacking@mastodon.ie But won't the federated nature make it even easier to migrate elsewhere in case of Musk-like buyout? It made people come here from Twitter in waves and this time they have to learn how to use new software, have to pick an instance, have no way to keep their followers… In case mastodon.social get new admins, people should already know other instances they like, and they can keep their social connections. @folkerschamel@mastodon.social @seth@s3th.me @feditips@mstdn.social
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@m0xEE@breloma.m0xee.net 2023-04-21 12:53
@Homebrewandhacking@mastodon.ie No, not in one month, I'm not that fruitful, 4k total, in 2 years probably 😅 Stats might be skewered because this instance uses an old version of Masto. But I do like it here! I'm all into what a lot of people here are in, like cats and obscure computer architectures… And even for me it wasn't easy to make my mind up. While I was reading stuff on Twitter a lot, I never had an account I was looking for some alternative that is more serious about privacy. In fact it was ProtonMail that pointed me in the right direction. They had a Mastodon account (they have left since, but now returned) so I realized that a decentralized alternative exists, then I realized that "social" thing by Purism uses the same protocol and I said: "Why not try it?" Again, I am tech-savvy, I'm online well since the 90-ies and even for me making a choice of instance (will this one really be the right one for me?) was a little confusing — self hosting the thing you know nothing about is out of the question. A lot of people used centralized media all their life (doesn't necessary mean they are bad people) — I can't even imagine what it's like for them. I do agree that funneling everyone to a single instance is bad practice and something is to be improved. Still, making a person pick something without giving them a taste of it first and not giving them time to hang around is confusing. Some might thing that it's a good filter to keep outsiders away, but I don't think that way at all, Fedi deserves to keep it spirit, but it doesn't mean it has to be an obscure closed circle. On top of that, who does it keep out? I don't consider myself not smart or knowledgeable enough, I wasn't born into the Web 2.0 things, I lived through them (and didn't like them), but I signed up not long ago and I remember quite well that even I had doubts. @m0xee@social.librem.one @folkerschamel@mastodon.social @seth@s3th.me @feditips@mstdn.social
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@m0xee@social.librem.one 2023-04-21 13:02
@Homebrewandhacking@mastodon.ie Sorry for using my other account to reply, but I really don't like it when I have to split my reply into five parts when it gets long and 500 characters is the limit I have on Librem Social instance.
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@mike@thecanadian.social 2023-04-22 05:27
@Homebrewandhacking@mastodon.ie @folkerschamel@mastodon.social @seth@s3th.me @feditips@mstdn.social Yup, then my job would be how to get rid of all my money before I die. Not a bad gig.
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@eob@social.coop 2023-04-20 21:53
@feditips@mstdn.social This UI is a classic example of a dark pattern.
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@dhrystone@techhub.social 2023-04-20 21:55
@feditips@mstdn.social Of all the *real* issues out there, people “maybe” signing up to one particular Mastodon instance instead of another is actually worth cold-sweating about?
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@spla@mastodont.cat 2023-04-20 21:57
@feditips@mstdn.social well, I guess that is logic that the official app sign new users up to official Mastodon server. Third party apps let new users to choose the server they want (Mammoth app prompts new users to join their server though).
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@aismallard@mas.to 2023-04-20 22:00
@feditips@mstdn.social There's also the moderation issue where some instances are "too big to fail" and you can't just defederate from them fully because too many people, including some friends, are there. So intentionally funnelling everyone there rather than trying to diffuse that as much as possible is not a good thing.
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@rye@meow.social 2023-04-20 22:42
@feditips@mstdn.social it's a great way to reduce friction for less motivated new users, at the cost of one of the main benefits of the Mastodon ecosystem. I wonder if a compromise could look like cycling through a different default general-interest server every app update
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@brainblasted@crab.garden 2023-04-20 23:18
@feditips@mstdn.social mastodon.social had already been overloaded for years. Why do they keep pushing this?
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@tchambers@indieweb.social 2023-04-20 23:18
@feditips@mstdn.social There is an obvious solution that strikes me that would keep the clear "Give Only One Big Featured Choice to Users" - that I agree with, *AND* that distributes users away from one centralized server alone. Which I also empathize wiith. That would be to round-robin which server gets that central place every X days. And set the standard for quality of service, clear branding, etc, to get that spot.
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@viktorbir@masto.ai 2023-04-20 23:36
@feditips@mstdn.social Does it propose the same server no matter what language you have your phone in, @Gargron@mastodon.social?
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@Leisureguy@mstdn.ca 2023-04-20 21:43
@feditips@mstdn.social That strikes me as a bad step and also going against the Federated idea. I thought the idea was a multiplicity of servers of different interests and textures. This move seems definitely a desire for monopolization.
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@Meowthias@mastodon.world 2023-04-21 00:25
@feditips@mstdn.social When the oligarchs decide it's time to destroy the "fediverse" they might try to do it through the apps.
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@stux@mstdn.social 2023-04-21 00:27
@feditips@mstdn.social I also saw this indeed And only thing I wondered was.. Why…
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@pinecone@tech.lgbt 2023-04-21 00:33
@feditips@mstdn.social i think that this move could be a good way for people to join the app/ site off rip. We, as a larger community, should encourage users to make more accounts on different servers. Overall, the more people that join the app would be best for everyone involved I definitely see the concerns though. And I also agree that this move kind of goes against the idea of mastodon, but the platform still gotta grow somehow
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@Avocadoontoast@mastodon.nz 2023-04-21 00:36
@feditips@mstdn.social Bad take, making signing up easier will only make mastodon grow.
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@FlockOfCats@famichiki.jp 2023-04-21 01:49
@feditips@mstdn.social secondary issue: I think “pick my own server” is really poor wording because it sounds like you need your own server that you host. “Pick another server” would be better
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@bigTanuki@social.linux.pizza 2023-04-21 02:28
@feditips@mstdn.social This is a concern, but if it helps to know that @ addresses are visible on posts and people who want to explore will probably investigate what are those funny other addresses. People who are not set for this exploration deserve a soft landing. Perhaps they should offer a default @trail.mastodon.social that eventually you have to leave if you do not feel ready to choose a server yet…
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@erictgilmour@mstdn.ca 2023-04-21 02:41
@feditips@mstdn.social @chad@mstdn.ca I don't think that's a bad idea, the whole "omg which server do I choose" is a frequently cited barrier to entry. Makes sense that the creator of the app would default to a server they control and can be reasonably certain will provide new users as good as an experience as they can get (e.g. a server that isn't overloaded and doesn't have weird moderation rules). Once people are used to the service they can move their accounts if they want.
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@jackemled@furry.engineer 2023-04-21 03:03
@feditips@mstdn.social Time is a flat fucking circle, I guess.
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@amayasnep@meow.social 2023-04-21 03:45
@feditips@mstdn.social Yeah that’s how I was greeted. I just deleted that instance and opened one on a different instance. I know where my friends are.
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@Wuzzy@fosstodon.org 2023-04-21 04:09
@feditips@mstdn.social Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I 100% agree with your assessment. I really hope this was a honest mistake (maybe some misunderstood usability concern?) and they will revert this change. mastodon.social is NOT the "default instance" and never was. While it's large, many Mastodon users live on a different instance (me included). That's a feature, not a bug.
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@RL_Dane@fosstodon.org 2023-04-21 04:22
@feditips@mstdn.social Dadgum. I always had a bad feeling about the "Official" app.
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@amxmln@mastodon.design 2023-04-21 05:59
@feditips@mstdn.social maybe the fix to all of this would be to show a random, general purpose instance with open admissions instead of just .social. I like the UX of giving the user an easy option. I've had friends not join Mastodon because the choice of server paralysed them. 😅
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@seanny@mastodon.au 2023-04-21 06:48
@feditips@mstdn.social @donmelton@mstdn.social One solution to the problem could be replacing the “join mastodon.social” button with a “help me pick a server” button. This could open a wizard with a few questions about the users interests, etc, and then end with a list of a few appropriate server options? This could solve the overwhelming amount of choice, without directing new users to any one particular server
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@r3vilo@layer8.space 2023-04-21 06:51
@feditips@mstdn.social @Gargron@mastodon.social There should be Pick my own server ---- or ---- Join mastodon.social Then it would be better. And "Pick my own server" should be highlighted by default. Otherwise, not that bad for a quick start, because you can change anytime later, but, to get the thing behind the #fediverse and first read about it, you are more concerned with the matter, when you have to choose a server from the start, without easy clicking.
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@amarok@mastodonczech.cz 2023-04-21 07:15
@feditips@mstdn.social "Pick my own server" makes the impression of picking an *own* server, so most people will skip that. That's really not how things should be, why did the choose these words? It should be "Pick another server" instead. #Mastodon
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@uastronomer@mastodon.monoceros.co.za 2023-04-21 08:42
@feditips@mstdn.social I posted a whole rant about server choice just an hour before finding about this change. I agree that forcing new users to the same monolithic instance is a terrible idea, but I also think "Welcome new user who doesn't yet know anything about this place, choose a server now, here are a thousand options" is a big obstacle. What I'd suggested was rather just assigning a nearby instance, maybe based on geolocating IP address or something, and if that doesn't give a satisfactory result, then have them enter a few interests and use that as a keyword search on instance descriptions. The choice is a good thing, but it's also a huge mental block for new users. Migration is fine, and people should be actively encouraged to find the right instance, but not while they're still trying to figure out if they even want to be here.
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@BarrenPlanet@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 21:41
@feditips@mstdn.social After a bad experience with a terrible mod, who nuked my last account without warning or explanation, I've temporarily joined https://mastodon.social so I can have reasonable confidence in rebuilding a following without fear of being shut down again, then potentially migrate the new account/following around the fedi. I've also syndicated longer posts using Hubzilla, to which I've installed ActivityPub so it's interoperable with Masto. Nomadic identity, baby. Shut me down now! 😎
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@reiver@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 21:45
@feditips@mstdn.social I suspect @Gargron@mastodon.social is trying to address the UX problems Mastodon has. (And there are a lot of UX problems.) (And I think it is good that @Gargron@mastodon.social is trying to address the UX problems.) I've been doing a lot of UX testing of various parts of the Fediverse (including Mastodon). I think @Gargron@mastodon.social has definitely (also) noticed one of the UX problems — having to choose a server causes many people to give up and abandon the sign up process. ... Let me ask you this —
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@peturdainn@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 21:56
@feditips@mstdn.social The whole 'pick your server' has been one of the complaints to get non-tech people on board, so I very much welcome this. You can still pick another server but at least non-tech users have a clear way forward.
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@hughster@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 21:59
@feditips@mstdn.social Hmm. I don't know. I agree with everything you say here about the need to avoid one server becoming too big, but at the same time the "pick a server, any server" stage at onboarding has proved to be too much of a hurdle for far too many non-techie users. Perhaps this really is the least worst workaround for that—make one server a "welcome" server and then let people move once they've got in and had a chance to get used to it?
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@dzzyd@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 22:09
@feditips@mstdn.social I think it’s designed to help the helpless who find the “pick a server” step to be too hard and bounce. It’s probably wise
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@boltondown@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 22:13
@feditips@mstdn.social I'm not technical but isn't this a flaw in Mastodon's basic functionality? It should be tweaked so that it has a tendency towards many smaller servers, that the disincentive to increase the size of a server gets exponentially stronger as the server grows.
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@davebleackley@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 22:44
@feditips@mstdn.social I quit twitter and joined here when Elon started messing with the CBC. I had/have no idea how this thing works and wouldn't know what picking a server means. The first time I heard Fediverse was about 3 days ago.
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@twelve_floating_hands@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 23:38
@feditips@mstdn.social I stopped trying to join mastodon 3 times because there weren't any easy defaults
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@kornel@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 23:49
@feditips@mstdn.social You're right that it's a risk of centralization, but OTOH it's hard to expect users to make a decision about their server before even knowing what that is and what are the implications. Maybe the app could suggest one of 3-5 top servers at random?
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@KilluaCL@mastodon.social 2023-04-20 23:52
@feditips@mstdn.social That's very strange, he said recently in the interview with The Verge that he doesnt want to be in that situation "where a single node is much, much bigger than the other ones" explaining the nature of decentralized social network and the process of sing up..Some changes like the possibility to even register in mastodon.social are for a brief period of time, lets hope this is the case. Maybe a strategy to accelerate the growth in front of the new options to the birdsite.