2022-12-19 21:30 UTC
Replies (40)
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@dynamicsymmetry@wandering.shop 2022-12-19 22:01
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I just… If Mastodon users want it to be a welcoming space for small time creatives who feel like they can’t operate safely on Twitter anymore, then *it needs to be okay for us to promote our stuff.* This shouldn’t be hard to understand!
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@Parasite@kolektiva.social 2022-12-19 22:01
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt and what system of commerce are we subject to…?
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@eastbaynian@sfba.social 2022-12-19 22:04
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I dont find artist self promotion wierd at all - it is messages like this exhorting the general crowd to do or not do something on someone elses behalf that is tiresome.
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@jeff@ocjtech.us 2022-12-19 22:08
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I think it's awesome for artists/artisans to promote their works here, as long as that not *all* that they do. They should interact with their fans and/or customers.
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@jsecure@m.jdnet.io 2022-12-19 22:58
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt who is being weird about artists selling their products? I’m interested to know who is on here putting up walls
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@mrcompletely@heads.social 2022-12-19 22:59
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I haven't seen that vibe but am not surprised to hear it's a thing. How deeply silly!
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@BinaryBolshevik@mastodon.social 2022-12-19 23:04
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt - Capitalism = an overall economic system - Commerce = an activity/action Commerce itself is fine under capitalism, as long as it isn't exploitative (such as selling some artistic product you personally made). I guess you could make some argument about the invalidity of intellectual property, but I'm not sure why people would go and act like harassing small artists online is praxis lol. Some people are just looking for excuses to harass people
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@spacehobo@teh.entar.net 2022-12-19 23:05
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I always like to explain specifically how Capitalism isn't commerce: Capitalism is the inflexible dogma that big investors *should* make all the laws.
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@Estarianne@mastodon.social 2022-12-19 23:11
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt yes, capitalism is when rich people accumulate money and decide we get 2 day shipping on toothpaste instead of universal Healthcare because it's more profitable. But anyway we all have to Survive!
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@benni@social.tchncs.de 2022-12-19 23:14
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Software ist an artform too and the Free Software people here usually just don't sell there art. Not judging anyone but i think this is the underlaying cultural problem in this case.
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@mjgardner@social.sdf.org 2022-12-19 23:30
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Anyone who thinks #capitalism is anything more than commerce is implicitly mourning that it became so
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@CarlG314@universeodon.com 2022-12-19 23:33
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I'm a nobody, and like many people am new to Mastodon. But my take is that if a post has merit on its own (e.g. has a picture of your art), and merely contains a link to your own site where the art is available for purchase, then the post is inherently a contribution to the Fediverse. But if a post is nothing more than a sales pitch ("Great art - must see to believe - click here for details"), that would turn me off at least.
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@AnnFromMEandMA@mstdn.party 2022-12-19 23:45
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Agreed, people are getting incredibly weird about capitalism. Capitalism is: "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state:" We have runaway capitalism bordering on oligarchy. The problem isn't individuals that want to work a little harder to make a little more. It's the super rich hoarding everything and a government supporting it. #capitalism
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@JenWojcik@mastodon.social 2022-12-19 23:49
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt AMEN
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@tuneslist@shakedown.social 2022-12-20 00:03
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt space exists for brands and commerce on Mastodon, but the engagement model is quite different than traditional advertising. Users may want to follow a commercial account if it is offering value to its followers (vs. promoted ads). May need to find the right instance that allows it - here is one https://brands.town/about
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@corinne@metalhead.club 2022-12-20 00:08
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt 💯💯 You cannot "profit" from your own labour. That's just... not how labour works. Artisans and craftspeople have been selling their wares for millennia and capitalism is a widdle baby by comparison.
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@sufferforme@mstdn.party 2022-12-20 00:15
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Agreed - there is a vast difference between being force fed ads by large corporations, and following and supporting individuals. We should welcome supporting people's creativity and efforts to support themselves by sharing what they have created with the world.
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@eighthdayarts@mastodon.social 2022-12-20 00:16
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Couldn't someone start an instance that allowed commerce and featured artists and artisans selling their wares?
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@encthenet@flyovercountry.social 2022-12-20 00:16
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Also, plenty of instances have no issue with people posting job information, which is more capitalism than commerce/trade.
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@EvilWriter@sfba.social 2022-12-20 00:16
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt We live in a capitalist society. Within this horrible hellscape, artists and creators must monetize and sell their products to survive. Anyone who would go after the workers selling their labor before dismantling the system that makes that necessary has it backwards. #anticapitalism
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@ChrisFeist@universeodon.com 2022-12-20 00:25
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I don't see any issue with self promotion of goods/services. I guess I could see Mastodon implementing a tag similar to the bot tag if the account was strictly to promote and nothing more with no interaction from the creator. But I still wouldn't have an issue with it. They could add an option to not see bots/shops like they do for boosts/replies on the home feed. *shrug*
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@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt 2022-12-20 05:14
To be perfectly clear, NFTs are scams and scams are not commerce. I'm not the one to start following if that's what you're about.
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@Tii@aus.social 2022-12-20 00:29
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I'm pretty socialist but gotta make that cha ching in a capitalist society.
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@levhita@mstdn.mx 2022-12-20 00:36
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt @emily_rj@tech.lgbt the other day was talking about how people also don't like fundraisers and stuff like that... it feels really connected. Like if anything moneywise was a problem.
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@audleyzdarke@mstdn.social 2022-12-20 00:45
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt THANK YOU!
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@clacke@libranet.de 2022-12-20 00:47
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I'm sorry that you saw that. I have been spared as far as I can remember. I hang in free software circles where the mantra is "free as in freedom, not free as in free of charge*", although not everyone gets it there either. * or usually an alc mention that doesn't really clarify things unless one already agrees and understands
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@barmzzz@mstdn.party 2022-12-20 00:55
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I'm begging y'all to just read Marx.
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@Mayor@comics.town 2022-12-20 00:56
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Agreed. Does the Fediverse need places where promo and selling isn't allowed? Of course, and it's beautifully set up to establish those kinds of places. Denying that social media is also critical for creators trying to make a living is pretty short-sighted. Maybe in the long run it shouldn't be, but it's going to be a long gradual process getting to whatever that better future system is!
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@KirbyDaDragon@toot.io 2022-12-20 01:02
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt some instances have rules against self promotion and others don’t, find an instance that suits your needs and you should for the most part be hunky dory.
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@anathema_device@wonkodon.com 2022-12-20 01:21
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I mute anyone and any tag trying to flog anything to me here. I had enough of it on the Twatter, and on FB.
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@avram@mastodon.social 2022-12-20 01:23
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Capitalists, and their fans, have been deliberately obscuring the difference for a century or more, so it’s no surprise that people get them confused.
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@vmatinnia@mstdn.party 2022-12-20 01:24
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt needed to be said, thanks🙏
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@lamont@hachyderm.io 2022-12-20 01:25
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Gentle reminder that Cantor and Siegel were a husband+wife who invented the modern era of internet spam. They weren't a corporation like McDonald's and weren't associated with any larger corporation. And it might seem obvious that lawyers are bad and artists/creatives/etc are good, but I can guarantee that in between those two points is very messy and some artists will abuse the system for financial profit. If anyone thinks it is simple, it probably isn't...
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@cjlemire@wandering.shop 2022-12-20 01:27
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt Commerce was around long before capitalism came along, and will still be here long after it exits the stage.
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@allenholub@mstdn.social 2022-12-20 01:42
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I wish I could boost this multiple times! The attitude makes Mastodon a much less useful platform for me. It's not just artists.
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@BreeJournals@mindly.social 2022-12-20 02:23
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt 🙌🏾
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@sigsegv@hachyderm.io 2022-12-20 02:30
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I know I’m new here, but this makes great sense to me. I follow a number of artisans on Twitter and it would be a grand shame for them be unable to connect with customers here.
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@Aerik@sfba.social 2022-12-20 02:33
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt I'm lost. This is the second post I've seen defending artists and I haven't seen any attacking them... ??
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@NLAWScametovisit@mastodon.social 2022-12-20 02:33
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt was it not Marx himself who said "I hate artists and they can get it just like the factory owners" #sarcasm
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@botanobimbofication@mindly.social 2022-12-20 02:50
@jenniferplusplus@tech.lgbt this is seriously one of my biggest peeves An Etsy shop or art commission is nowhere near the ballpark of a mega corporation reeeeee