@collin@ruby.social My point is that they play along very well (you say otherwise, but I have had not problems with that yet). Not an "either or", but use the right tool for the job. There is no reason to make "everything in just SwiftUI" when you have the full power of Cocoa readily available if necessary. Somehow people often think this is verboten. (FWIW SwiftUI things should not even be structured very differently to Cocoa ones, IMO)